North Shore Morning

Dr. Seth Moore is Director of Biology and Environment with the Grand Portage Band of Lake Superior Chippewa. 

The Grand Portage Reservation is located in the extreme northeast corner of Minnesota, on the North Shore of Lake Superior in Cook County. Bordered on the north by Canada, on the south and east by Lake Superior and on the west by Grand Portage State Forest, the reservation encompasses an historic fur trade site on scenic Grand Portage Bay.

The band engages in fisheries and wildlife research projects throughout the year, working with moose, wolves, fish, deer, grouse, and environmental issues. Dr. Moore appears regularly on WTIP North Shore Community Radio, talking about the band's current and ongoing natural resource projects, as well as other environmental and health related issues.  In this segment, Dr. Moore talks about ongoing wolf research at Grand Portage.  Produced by Carah Thomas.

During the mega-storm back on July 17, two dogs were lost in the BWCA Wilderness.  A collie named Tomah was lost on Brule Lake, and a border collie named JJ was lost on the portage south of Cherokee Lake.
 
Tomah was found a few days later by members of the Minnetonka High School cross-country team and returned safely to his owners.  The feel-good story was reported statewide. 
 
Meanwhile, JJ stayed lost.  And here, as Paul Harvey used to say, is the rest of the story:
 
Rich Werner is an American who lives and works in China.  Every year, he returns to Minnesota to visit friends and take a solo canoe trip in the BWCA Wilderness. He enjoys taking a dog with him in the wilderness, so for years he has borrowed a dog from his good friends, Nicole Paradise and Greg Rohleder.  This was the third trip that Rich had taken JJ on, with no problems in the past.
 
July 17 was the day of the mega-storm that included giant bolts of lightning, deafening thunder and torrential rain.  Rich and JJ were making their way out of the wilderness on the 180-rod portage south of Cherokee Lake, headed for Sawbill Lake.  Partway across the portage, they experienced a terrific flash of lightning with a simultaneous crash of thunder, while at the exact same moment another person came into view on the portage.  The combination was too much for JJ and he bolted into the woods.
 
Rich stayed on the portage for 24 hours, searching and calling in vain for his friends’ dog.  Heartsick, he returned to Sawbill, left word of JJ’s loss and headed back to the Twin Cities to break the bad news to his friends and their two children, ages 10 and 11. 
 
Two days later, a canoe party saw JJ on the portage, but he ran off when they called to him.  For the next 9 days, no one saw hide nor hair of JJ, and hope started to dwindle for his safe return. 
 
Then, on July 29^, a couple day-paddling on Sawbill Lake reported seeing a border collie when they stopped for lunch.  They called to him too, but once again he ran off.
 
The Sawbill crew updated all the social media sites where the family had posted lost dog notices and within minutes, the owners were in their car and on their way north.  Early on the morning of July 30, they headed up Sawbill Lake to the campsite where JJ had been spotted. 
 
Meanwhile, two men from Lakeville, Dave Krings and Mike Raub, had been camped on Sawbill Lake for several days.  While Nicole and Greg were searching at one campsite, JJ appeared at Dave and Mike’s campsite, about two miles farther south.  They recognized that he was probably a lost dog and tried to call to him, but he was wary and kept his distance.  They were able to feed him some pancakes, but he turned his nose up at the apples and carrots that they offered, so they cooked up some broccoli cheese pasta.  JJ accepted the pasta but wouldn’t let them get close enough to capture him.
 
Soon, word spread that JJ was at their site, so several members of the Sawbill crew showed up with a couple of packs of hot dogs.  By then, JJ had taken off again.  Word reached his owners and they came to the site, where they waited and called for the rest of the day with no success.  Discouraged, tired and bug-bitten, they paddled back to Sawbill and returned to their lodgings in Lutsen. 
 
Less than an hour after they left, JJ returned to the site.  At first he just watched the two men from a rock across the bay, but eventually he appeared at the edge of the site.  Dave and Mike patiently coaxed him closer and closer with a trail of hot dog bits.  After many false starts, they finally got JJ to enter one of their tents, which they quickly zipped shut behind him.  Although he could have easily in there, eating hot dogs and drinking water from a bowl. 
 
The next morning, July 31, Nicole and Greg headed out early and arrived at the campsite for a joyful reunion with JJ.  He was in amazingly good shape - his coat was sleek and clean, he didn’t have a scratch on him and he seemed to be in good spirits.  Other than a couple of wood ticks on his ears and looking a little skinnier, he was fine. 
 
Nicole and Greg had the great pleasure of calling their children, and their friend Rich, who was already back in China, with the wonderful news.
 
If only JJ could talk, I wonder what stories he would tell?  I know for a fact that there are a lot of wolves in that area, but somehow he managed to avoid them.
 
Mike captured the moment of reunion between JJ and his owners on his iPhone and you can find it on YouTube by searching for “Lost Dog Reunion 7/31/13,” or go to Sawbill.com where it is posted on the newsletter page.  I highly recommend having a hanky handy before you watch the video.

(Photo by Dave Raub)

This green tunnel through the woods has forever been blessed with magic, and the past week saw the “old gal” who is in charge of things adding some much needed enhancement.  Rain the likes of which this area has not seen in a while came and hung out long enough to energize rivers and streams into raging serpentines.
            Many roads and driveways were gashed with washouts, but on the good side, lake levels were raised substantially from their usual summer decline. Here on Gunflint Lake, the surface level has upped a good foot from input throughout the watershed.
            The rain gauge at Wildersmith did not register as much as several other places in the upper Gunflint. Nevertheless, I’ve recorded 3 1/4 inches since we last met on the radio waves.
 Meanwhile, the stickiness has lessened for the time being, and a swell cold front gave us a taste of autumn this past Sunday.  With a morning low here on the Mile O Pine of 39 and sunny afternoon skies with a high in the 50s, all that was missing from a simply splendid day was some fall color. It was definitely a day from which a border country travelogue could be written.  As July has almost faded into the annals of 2013, we north woods folks hope this natural air conditioning extends into the coming of August.
Folks who put nectar out for the hummingbirds are being treated to a real buzz around their feeders. Just off the hatch, these tiny miracles of avian flight are swarming these scarlet stations like bees attracted to fruit tree blossoms.
Many report that every perch on their sweetness units are occupied continually with cousins swooping about in holding patterns. Patience among these little guys and gals often gets strained when they are so hungry, often erupting into mid-air combat skirmishes. One would have to think that these wonderful creatures must really be tired after a day darting about at near-blinding speed.
An exciting link, about a lynx, came to me the other day from friends over on Hungry Jack Lake. Guess the feline casually strolled through their yard, probably in quest of an afternoon snowshoe bunny treat. Another report comes from that same area along the south Hungry Jack road where a momma moose and her calf were spotted.
Meanwhile a wolf has been seen tramping around the neighborhood where Mile O Pine and County Road 20 intersect.
            And if you haven’t seen any bears of late, they’re probably busy in the blueberry patches. The precious blue morsels are on the stem and ready for harvest. So far, those I’ve seen are of prime quality, big and plump. It would look as though the area will have a bumper crop, so grab those buckets, watch for the brunos and have a pickin’ good time!
Kudos are extended to the organizers and volunteers of the Clearwater Lake cabin tour. I heard many oohs and aahs from attendees as they trekked around the lake getting an up-close look at the wonderful north-country domiciles of those gracious homeowners. Sincere thanks go out to all who opened cabin doors to share a bit of their Clearwater resident history.
On a final note, the annual Gunflint Canoe Races are in the history books with another successful run. A magnificent evening on the waterfront at Gunflint Lodge a week ago Wednesday saw a record number of participants hit the lake in the various canoeing events. Proceeds from the event’s many activities came in from all directions and, in the final tally, over $12,500 was netted in support of our Gunflint volunteer fire and recues crews.
Thanks go out to everyone who pitched in as raffle/auction prize donors, event planners/volunteers and participants. The drawing for that grand prize, the Wenonah Canoe, found the Baker family of Gunflint Lake getting to paddle it home.
Summer events on the Gunflint community calendar seem to be never-ending. Next up on the docket is the Mid-Trail property owners flea market, auction and gift boutique. The date is Thursday, Aug. 8 beginning at 1 p.m. in Fire Hall #1 /Mid-Trail. Don’t miss this energetic occasion.
Then on Saturday, Aug. 17, the Gunflint Trail Historical Society is hosting its first chamber music concert, by and for residents and guests of the Gunflint Trail. This classical chamber music, in a north woods setting, is heralded as “The Gunflint Woods, Winds and Strings.” It will begin at 4 p.m. in the new Schaap Mid-Trail Community Center. Featured will be music by Grieg, Bach, Chopin, Britten, Hoover, Rossini and Beckstrand.
 Tickets include a post-concert reception. With a limited number available to be sold, you can get your reservation secured by calling the Chik-Wauk Museum and Nature Center at (218) 388-9915, or order online at www.GunflintTrailHistoricalSociety.org. Watch for headlines on the performing artists in weeks to come.
Keep on hangin’ on, and savor times in the northern sun!
            

I join many, many people in mourning the passing of my friend, Steve O’Neil, last week.  Steve was best known as a St. Louis County commissioner and a long-time community organizer in Duluth.  His public accomplishments have been well documented since his death and at his memorial service, which had to be held at the DECC Auditorium in Duluth.  Suffice it to say that the word “saint” is most often used to describe Steve.
 
A less known fact about Steve was that he was an avid visitor here in the West End, especially at the Sawbill Lake Campground and in the BWCA Wilderness.  The picture on his Caring Bridge site was of him carrying a Sawbill canoe on a portage, and one of his last wishes was to paddle one last time on Sawbill Lake.  Sadly, he became too ill to fulfill that wish and died just a few days after his planned visit. 
 
A few days after his funeral, Steve’s wife, Angie Miller, along with his children, Brianna and Brendan, brought some of his ashes to Sawbill for a canoe ride up the lake. While our hearts ache for Steve’s absence from our community, I’m glad he was able to visit Sawbill one last time.
 
During the big storm last week, a border collie named JJ was spooked by lightning and ran off into the woods on the 180-rod portage between Cherokee and Scoop Lakes.  The owners searched in vain and finally had to return to their home.  They are asking that everyone in the West End keep an eye out for JJ.  Dogs have tremendous survival instincts and can sometimes show up far from where they are lost.  If you see JJ, you can call the sheriff’s department to report it.  
 
Another dog was lost on Brule Lake at almost the same time, but was found and returned to its owner after several days alone in the woods.  Let’s keep our fingers crossed for the same happy ending for JJ.
 
I am pleased to report that a new business is planning to start up at the Eco-industrial Park in Silver Bay.  Rocky Coast Brewing will include the brewing of fine, artisan beer, a taproom, food service, fire rings, live music and booths for local artists to display their art.  Head brewer, Jonathon Klinkenberg, is planning to make Rocky Coast a destination brewery, where people come to camp, hang out and socialize over some excellent beer.  He hopes to start operation this winter and have a grand opening in April.
 
This is the time of year when blueberries start to figure prominently in local conversations.  Up until recently, there was a consensus that this would be a good berry season, but that it would be late, due to the late spring.  Now it appears that it will be a good berry crop, but it seems like the berries are ripening right on schedule, with the peak coming around the first week or two in August, which is normal for this area. 
 
Serious berry pickers in the West End have already been able to find quarts of ripe berries in a single picking session.  But the good news is that they are reporting a heavy crop of green berries, just waiting for some warm sun to turn them blue, plump and sweet.
 
The areas burned by the recent Pagami Creek Fire should be loaded with blueberries this year, or next, at the latest.
 
I was interested to read in the Cook County News Herald about the Sasquatch Crossing signs that appeared, and were subsequently removed by the highway department, along the Gunflint Trail. 
 
I just want people to know that there is a Sasquatch crossing that has been marked by signs for many years on the Picnic Loop ski trail at the Sugarbush Trail system in Tofte.  In fact Sasquatch has been seen often at the crossing over the years, although some people believe that it might just be well-known Tofte resident, Jan Horak.

     In the summer of 2012, a coalition of Minnesota conservation groups calling themselves Mining Truth started a public dialogue surrounding the proposed Polymet and Twin Metals mines near Lake Superior and the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness. 
     A year later, the campaign is entering its next phase, and the coalition is initiating a public debate over four questions they feel Governor Dayton and mining companies should be able to answer before allowing the mines to proceed. (Click on audio mp3 above to hear an interview with Frank Moe of Conservation Minnesota and Aaron Klemz of Friends of the Boundary Waters Wilderness.)  

Those questions are:

1)   Will Minnesota’s water stay safe and clean?

2)   Are there safeguards in place for when things go wrong?

3)   Will the company leave the site clean and maintenance-free?

4)   Will Minnesota’s taxpayers be protected?

     Mining Truth coalition members have stated that unless Governor Dayton and the mining companies are each able to demonstrate to the people of Minnesota that the answer to these four questions is an unqualified yes, the mines should not be allowed to move forward. 
     Mining Truth coalition members are currently meeting with Minnesotans around the state to encourage them to sign an online petition that will urge Governor Dayton to take these questions into account when it comes to deciding on the mining proposals.  
     “Minnesotans from all parts of the state need to understand what is at stake with these sulfide mines,” said Paul Austin, Executive Director of Conservation Minnesota.  “When they fully understand the risks we all face, we believe they will join with us in demanding that these four questions are resolved before the mines progress.” 
     Mining Truth is a combined effort of Conservation Minnesota, the Friends of the Boundary Waters Wilderness and the Minnesota Center for Environmental Advocacy.  The goal of the coalition is to provide a resource for Minnesotans to get the facts about sulfide mining and its long-lasting impacts.  For more information visit www.miningtruth.org. 

Both July and summer are flying by. Having missed the past couple weeks of bringing the Gunflint scoop to you, it’s good to be back home in the woods.
            After a visit with family in Iowa, it was easy to reconcile living in the realm of 48 degrees north following the days of heat and humidity down that way. It seems that some of the nasty humidity even followed the Smiths back since it it’s been a bit on the sticky side over the past few days.
            I was pleasantly surprised to find a little over an inch of liquid in the rain gauge upon our return.  And this past Sunday, Mother Nature saw fit to bless us with about another 2 1/2 centimeters. Thus far July has accumulated slightly over 2 inches in the Wildersmith neighborhood.
            This is just so welcome out this way! While many areas of our great country have been swearing at the copious amounts of rain and flooding over recent weeks, we who live on the edge of wildfire danger for many months of the year are extremely grateful for anything wet to moisten this precious forest resource. Rain certainly never dampens our spirits!
            Lake water temps have warmed to a more than comfortable range for recreational dipping. It seems unreal that only eight weeks ago the ice went out, and the possibility exists that in another eight weeks we could see flakes in the air.
Here at the Gunflint dock, last Sunday’s lake reading was 74 degrees. Good for us humans but not too satisfying for those denizens of the deep who prefer cold northern waters.
            Fish catching has been spotty to good depending upon the time, place and skill level. A recent hatching of mayflies must be affecting their appetites for things on the end of a hook, as my visiting grandsons are finding the harvest numbers frustrating.
            Speaking of other hatching things, the ongoing battle with mosquitos has surged in these parts since our return. During last Sunday’s rain the stinging urchins were in a particularly foul mood.
Due to the excess and toughness of these nasty north woods antagonists, it makes me wonder if maybe they might have been more appropriately suited for selection as our state flying critter. Just kidding of course, but I’m betting they annoy the loons too!
The charge of Mother Nature never ceases to amaze.  The changes in the flora along the Mile O Pine and other back country roads since our southerly trek are nothing short of remarkable.  Roadside grasses have grown to nearly head high and are proceeding toward going to seed. Meanwhile, the candles of new growth on the coniferous branches have already matured into hearty stems and next generation evergreen stylus.
Early summer blooms are running to seed as well, and those next in line to flower are bidding for rays to allow their turn in our northern sun. It’s a glorious, virid jungle out here!
Gunflint Trail Historical Society members are reminded of the Clearwater Lake historic cabin tour this coming Sunday, July 21. Organizers report that only a few tickets remain. If interested, members can call Lee Zopff promptly at 388-4465 to secure a reservation. This event should be a splendid trip back in time. See you there!
From Wildersmith and all points beyond, congrats and thanks to the over 300 parties who pledged their support during the WTIP Shine On membership drive last week. The tremendous support for your community radio station is both heartwarming and energizing!
 The station’s board of directors, staff and volunteers are deeply appreciative of the many kind words expressed during the fund drive. Because you pledged, we also pledge to continue growing this air waves gem in the Arrowhead with quality programming!
Keep on hangin’ on, and savor the fleeting summer!   
           
           
           
             Photo by Belinda Rain via Wikimedia Commons: Licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution 2.0 Generic license.

Patty Nordahl, the wonderful and effective Director of the Birch Grove Foundation is organizing a community meeting to explore the idea of building a greenhouse at the Birch Grove Community Center in Tofte.  The mmeting will be on Wednesday, July 24^th starting at 5:45 pm and there will be pizza served from the Birch Grove hearth oven. Dough, sauce and cheese will be provided for a nominal fee.  You should bring your own toppings and beverage.
 
Diane Booth, will be there, along with the Birch Grove Greenhouse Advisory Committee, to brainstorm on what a greenhouse could do for our community.  Diane wears many  hats, but she is basically the agriculture guru for Cook County. 
 
I hope the committee will take a hard look at the combination fish farm and greenhouse that has been so successful in Silver Bay.
 
Everyone is welcome to attend and share ideas. Let Patty know at 663-7977 or email [email protected] if you plan to come.    You can always call WTIP for contact information.
 
Birch Grove will be hosting a very exciting event on Sunday August 18^th starting at 3:00 p.m.  The Grammy Award winning “Okee Dokee Brothers” will be appearing.  The event starts with a children’s concert at 3:00, and trust me, kids love these guys. 
 
After the show, there will be a “West End Outdoor Recreation and Cultural Break” where people can explore the local hiking and biking trails, parks and museums.
 
Then, at 6 pm there will be another concert geared toward and all ages audience.  This fabulous event is co-sponsored by the Birch Grove Foundation and the North Shore Music Association.  The foundation will be selling hearth oven pizza and the music association will be selling beverages.
 
As you can plainly see, the wood fired hearth oven at Birch Grove is being kept busy.  Patty tells me that the regularly scheduled pizza bakes on Wednesday evenings have been a big success.  It works in the same way that I mentioned earlier, with dough, sauce and cheese being provided for a small fee and you bring the toppings that you like. It starts at 5:30 and continues until no one is hungry.
 
As a side benefit, the oven is still hot on Thursday morning, so anyone that wants to bake bread is welcome.
 
As you drive through Tofte, you can’t miss the Grindbygg timber framed boat shelter that has sprung up at the Commercial Fishing Museum. Although the building is designed to protect the historic fishing vessel, “Viking,” it is a work of art in itself and very appropriate to it’s purpose. 
 
Don Hammer, Director of the North Shore Commercial Fishing Museum, told me that if the Tofte brothers could time travel to today, they would immediately recognize the building from their childhoods in 19^th century Norway.
 
Greg Tofte and his construction crew will be roofing the new structure soon and the “Viking” will arrive as soon as they’re done.  A grand opening celebration is being planned for the latter half of August.  Keep an eye open for details here on WTIP and all the other local news providers.
 
Meanwhile, I highly recommend that you stop and look for yourself.  It is well worth the effort.
 
Nashville songwriter, Jerry Vandiver, has been hanging around Cook County for much of the summer.  Jerry has written hit songs for country stars Tim McGraw, Gene Watson, Phil Vassar, Lonestar, The Oak Ridge Boys, Lee Greenwood among others.  His songs, "It Doesn't Get Any Countrier Than This" and “For a Little While" are among the gold and platinum records on display at the Country Music Hall of Fame in Nashville.
 
In addition to being a hit songwriter, Jerry is an avid canoeist.  While he’s around this summer, he’ll be playing house concerts on the Gunflint Trail and in Ely.  He’ll be bringing his band to Fisherman’s Picnic where they will be headlining the Harbor Park stage on Saturday night. 
 
Along with his well known hits, he’ll be singing a couple of locally inspired songs, “My Sawbill Journey” and a brand new song called “In Grand Marais.”
 
Last week, Jerry hosted his second annual songwriter’s campfire here at Sawbill.  He invites local songwriters to share there songs in a circle format, where each writer presents one of their songs and then the next writer takes a turn.  Jerry is highly complimentary about the songwriting skills of local musicians.  I must say, folks that were camped in the Sawbill Lake campground and stumbled across the campfire, were surprised indeed to hear big hits being performed by the author, way out here in the West End of good old Cook County.

One thing we haven’t had to worry about in the West End this year, at least so far, is forest fires.  The late spring and the wet summer have kept fire danger very low. 
 
In spite of that, fire has played a large role in the news this summer.  Early in the season, massive fires out in Colorado and California destroyed hundreds of homes.  Then, Bluefin Bay Resort in Tofte experienced their fire, which was destructive, but thankfully without human injury.
 
Most recently, Zion Lutheran Church in Finland was destroyed by fire after apparently being struck by lightning.  Although it is tempting to laugh about a church being destroyed by an act of God, in reality it is a terribly wrenching experience for any community, but especially a community with only one church building.  I’m sure I speak for the entire West End when I offer heartfelt condolences to the Zion congregation and the whole Finland community.
 
In many ways, the fire that hit home the hardest was the tragic fire in Arizona that killed 19 members of a hotshot crew.  In a community like ours, where many people are wild land firefighters who travel around the country, a story like this one sends cold chills down the spine.  And, after the big, dangerous fires we’ve had here in the last 10 years, the Arizona disaster leads one to think, “There but for the grace of God.” 
 
It is now self-evident that larger and more dangerous fires are the result of climate change and long-term forest management policies.  These are very complex and politically sensitive issues that will be debated for a long time. 
 
In my opinion, one thing is abundantly clear: If you choose to live in a community that is located in a fire ecosystem, you have the responsibility to protect your property from wildfire.  The FireWise system that combines choosing fire-resistant building materials, smart management of vegetation and sprinkler systems is now a well-proven way to prevent property loss from wildfires.  If government and insurance companies required that home and business owners protect their own properties, we would not only save a lot of money, but we wouldn’t have to put our fire fighters in harm’s way to protect buildings.
 
Back in the ‘90s, two fires started here on the Superior National Forest on the same day.  Both were lightning strikes and both were within the BWCA Wilderness.  One was allowed to burn until a rainstorm put it out.  The other, which was here in the West End, was fought in the usual manner.  It eventually cost more than $5 million and was ultimately put out by the same rainstorm that stopped the fire that cost almost nothing.
 
I asked the fire boss at the time why one fire was aggressively fought while the other was not.  Her answer was that the cabins at Gust Lake were threatened by the West End fire while no cabins were threatened by the sister fire.  I asked her why they didn’t just defend the cabins rather than fight the fire in the traditional manner.  She paused and then said, “We don’t do that.”  It might be time to re-examine how we think about wild fires in forests that are fire-based ecosystems.
 
Meanwhile, back in Finland, the Finland Co-op just celebrated their 100th year.  I heard once that the Finland Co-op is the oldest continuously running co-op in Minnesota.  Whether that is true or not, 100 years is a huge milestone.  Congratulations to the Finland community for supporting this fine local business for so long.
 
Birch Grove Community Center in Tofte is hosting a handmade card party on July 21 starting at 3 p.m.  You can bring your own card making supplies, or buy supplies at the event for a reasonable cost.  Instruction, ideas and inspiration will be freely shared.  Just think, you can make all your wedding, anniversary and birthday cards for the next year at the same time.  And, nothing says thoughtfulness like a handmade card.  Contact the Birch Grove Foundation, Lavona Czaplicki, or WTIP for more details and contact information.
 
On the deck in front of our sauna, we have a small wrought iron tree that is covered with LED Christmas lights.  We use it to give the deck a nice soft ambient light when a sauna is happening after dark.  A few days ago, the crew accidently left the lights on overnight after a sauna.  The next day I looked out at the deck from my house and realized that half a dozen beautiful green Luna moths were festooning the stark metal tree.  Attracted by the lights overnight, they looked for all the world like large green leaves sprouting from the metal tree.  Closer inspection revealed a dozen other moths that were a less conspicuous brown and orange color. 
 
It was just another pleasant and beautiful surprise from the rich natural world here in the West End.

The Grand Marais Garden Club’s 79th Annual Flower Show is Friday, July 19, from noon to 5:00 p.m. at the Cook County Community Center.  This year's theme is "Rock 'n Flowers,” and is inspired by the 1950’s.

Anyone may enter a flower arrangement, and all ages are welcome.  Entries may be dropped off at the Community Center on Friday morning between 9:00 and 11:30.  Doors open at noon.  Refreshments will be served.   More information is available by phone at 387-3326. 

WTIP volunteer Mary Manning spoke with Garden Club members Skip Joynes and Jan Healy on North Shore Morning.  (Click on audio mp3 above to hear the interview.)